Regards

Paul

The reality is that your opinion (like mine) is based on your external influences and it is safe to say that neither you nor me have all the ‘real’ facts to hand, but then again that is the beauty of having an opinion.

Anyway, I do hope that we will see who the real villains are in time but again that is based on the assumption that the ‘real’ truth surfaces and not simply a version of it.

Merry Christmas

“Just like the wild west, this is a turbulent time, filled with selfish idiots and leaders with a heart for their people..and very often its very difficult to see who the good guy is because we do not have an objective measure of morality. its been spoiled by culture-based barometers which are biased by construct .”

What michelle said about the media applies to you as well. you have simply reiterated the same arguments which are based on “culture-based” barometers and insufficient, media-generated, biased information.

As a result, to continue the argument would entail trying to convince you that you do not have enough information to come to the conclusions you have come to, and that your view of morality and the requirements for leadership is skewed by your culture. this is clearly an impossible task as you clearly believe that the media is objective, and that the only example of poor leadership in the past is the mbeki era.

it is best we agree to disagree. hopefully in a couple of years when the dust settles on south african politics and and the objective truth comes out we will get clarity on who the real villians are. in the meantime i will encourage you to keep you r mind open lest you commit to a view based on biased and insufficient information.

cheers bud

Gosh are you seriously suggesting that the only heinous crime is stuttering and polygamy? Do we seriously turn a blind eye to the corruption charges, the so called “rape” incident and then the issue of “taking a shower”. You really cannot compare Zuma to other world leaders, nobody in the International community (developed world or not) will take him seriously.

I do agree with the long past of poor leadership, especially when you see the statistics that were recently published showing the 330,000 and 35,000 “unneccessary” deaths of adults and children with HIV respectively because the government was too slow to act and has a skewd view of the link between HIV and Aids. Put that into context and we are talking about crimes against humanity. This blame I know lies squarely on Mbeki and his cronies. Doctor beetroot and co were banned from the HIV conference in Canada and rightly so. These incidents should not be pushed aside with the all too fimiliar sentiment of “ag well, thats just how it goes” as millions of people lives are hanging in the balance and depend on good leadership decisions.

Back to Zuma however, again I’m not sure how the general public can forgive those indescretions so easily, Clinton left after getting a BJ, what do you think would happen if he was accused (not even convicted) of the same crimes that Zuma has, do you think the American people would let it fly and let him continue his presidency? I suspect that question doesn’t even warrant a response.

Lastly, @Mlu to even suggest that this comes down to Zuma’s ability to speak English and that is a baramoter for intelligence, I couldn’t disagee more. I don’t think there is any retort to his shady past that could be better explained in any other language. Facts are facts and we should be demanding better leadership instead of searching through the positives of what we already have with a magnifying glass.

@Michele I take your point about the influence of media, but that is the very reason why we have to peak our noses above that and see how things really are otherwise we are nothing more than sheep.

The problem is a complex one and nothing that one person can resolve, it needs a new movement, a wave of support and passion for change, something like when the ANC took over power. Instead of largely black supported ANC vs a white supported DA, there needs to be a movement which is made up of all colours all fighting for the same cause. Well in my humble opinion only.

its a good post dam that bakkie has alot of stuff on it.

and D9 rules!! watched it twice already!

Great post BTW.